Honour killing, forced marriages and female infanticide come from Pagan-Hindu-Judeo-Christian traditions. Hindus idolise women as Goddesses on one hand, while downgrading them on the sly at the same time. There is nothing in the Holy Quran and the Hadiths that may encourage people to kill their daughters. Infact, Islam came to abolish the dark ages of Pagan- Hindu –Judeo- Christian traditions. Islam is a matter of choice and there is no compulsion at all. It is a misconception that forced marriage and honour killing are part of Muslim culture. Forced marriage, honour killing and genital mutilation are rare practices among migrant communities. Muslim migrants are worried about institutional racism, binge drinking, drug addiction, incivility, gun and knife crimes, high rate of abortions and teen age pregnancies. An average of 20 English girls under the age of 16 falls pregnant every day. Muslim parents do not want their children to be integrated into such barbarity. Muslim women feel torn between two cultures, thanks to the British education system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. It makes their lives very confusing. The tragedy of forced marriage and honour killing could have been avoided if the poor girls were educated in a single sex state funded Muslim schools by female Muslim teachers. Educational attainment rises quite significantly if boys and girls are educated separately. The tragedies are an eye opener for all those Muslim parents who send their children to state schools where they are exposed to non-Muslim teachers who have no respect for Islamic faith and Muslim community and do not understand the needs and demands of the Muslim children. Muslim schools are crucial for Muslim children because western education makes a man/woman stupid. The hypocrisy of the Western society is clearly seen whereas an Australian Judge failed to jail nine males who admitted gang-raping a 10-year old aborigine girl in 2005, saying the victim probably agreed to have sex with them and a UNICEF Photo of the year shows, a bridegroom, 40, with his 11-year old bride in Afghanistan. In my opinion, a UNICEF photo of the year must show a nine year British girl having a baby and another photo showing a gang of teenage girls with anti-social behaviour and vomiting out side a pub, thanks to binge drinking. Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Muslim schools are the solutions and not a problem. They help to strengthen community cohesion, not undermine it. Muslim schools stand as shining beacons of light, serving as one of the most crucial factors which protect Muslim children from the onslaught of Eurocentricism, homosexuality, racism and secular values and traditions. They need to be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time they need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. Muslim schools are not only faith schools but also bilingual schools. Infact, bilingualism is an asset and not a problem as perceived by the British education system. There is a positive co-relation between language and culture. English language is associated with western culture. The silent majority of Muslim parents would like to send their children to Muslim schools but there are not enough schools to go by. The only alternative left is either British Government should introduce voucher system for parents to choose the school of their choice or designate all those state schools as Muslim community schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslims are in majority. Such schools may be handed over to Muslim educational Trusts or charities for their management. They are in a better position to educate Muslim children in accordance with their needs and demands. This demand is in accordance with the law of the land because there are state schools already managed by private companies. Muslim community is not asking for a favour. It is their legal right.

Iftikhar Ahmad

www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

I saw this and thought here we go again - 'Muslim young people need Muslim schools' ra ra ra - but actually the first few paragraphs are interesting. I just wish you'd put more effort into helping people understand the view points you try to represent instead of constantly preaching what may be a worthy message but is done in a very tedious way. That said, I don't agree with that message - I don't agree with faith schools and I don't particularly agree (but to a lesser extent) with single sex schools, neither of which represent the world for which children need to be prepared in this country. I think you'd achieve much more if you looked to share the knowledge and experience you have particularly in the challenges Muslim young people and their families have and preached a little less.

Albeit I suspect you never read replies to the messages you post, you don't come across as a listening sort of a person but correct me if I'm wrong :-)

  

I agree with supporting children to retain their culture, but while I think schools should respect this I don't see that its their duty - that seems more the responsibility of their parents. I think its equally important that while we respect traditions and heritage we also acknowledge that culture particularly in this country constantly evolves and so we need to look forward as well as back, and in my opinion the best approach to going forward is to seek to integrate not exclude or alienate and working with people in isolation one way or the other will always alienate somebody. 

Hi Iftikhar,

You touch on so many points here that it’s impossible to deal with all of it in one thread- Perhaps you could pick one next time and explore it properly, backing it up with a link or two.

That would really help debate, as I don’t have the time to address both your interesting, relevant points about faith schools and your incredibly broad brushstrokes about the failings of western society all in the same post.

Your points about making Muslim majority schools into Muslim community schools- personally, I don’t agree with any faith schools getting state funding at all, and your statement of there being no place for a non-Muslim child or teacher is exactly the reason why.

Your post gives the impression that you want to insulate Muslim children from the ills of UK society, while also stopping them from having any chance of interacting with it when they are adults. Surely these children are the future of UK society too. If they were born here, then yes, they have a need to keep in touch with their roots,  but they also have a UK heritage of tolerance and understanding other cultures which is the very same moral point that you are trying to tap into to get the state to fund Islamic community schools.

Also, what would you do with the minority of children in those school’s catchment areas who are not Muslim? No place for them? Funny then that you end your post stating people’s legal rights.

Salaam

Majority of bilingual Muslim children have been leaving schools with low grades for the last 60 years. The main reason is that they have been mis-educated and de-educated by state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. They have been in a wrong place at a wrong time. They need state funded Muslim schools wioth bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. They also suffer from reacims because British schooling is the home of institutional racism.

There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority. They are in majority because native parents remove their children or move from the areas when they find that the number of Muslim children is on the increase. It is not the Muslims who do not want to mix with the natives, it is the other way round. 

I have been campaigning foir state funded Muslim schools for the last 35 years. I set up the first Muslim school and now there are only 140 Muslim schools and only ten schools are state funded. Less than 5% attend Muslim schools while over 95% attend state schools to be mis-educated and de-educated.

A man is a product of his culture, faith and language. Muslim children need to learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. 

 

 

Ifikhar, Teachers and teaching assistants often have to work with children from a large array of backgrounds in the same class. To claim that state schools mis-educate and even de-educate muslim children is unfair. Do you believe that all children (whatever belief system they happen to follow) are ill-educated in a state school? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts regarding non-muslim children, as it might open the debate up a bit rather than you cut and pasting from previous posts.

Salaam

You better teach your children and let Muslim teachers educate their children. Education is more than A to C Grades.

Binge-drinking, underage pregnancies and abortion, drug addiction and anti-social behaviour is on the increase among school-age children. It is an eye opening for Muslim parents, who keep on sending their children to state and church schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.

There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools.

Bilingual Muslim children need to learn and be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit.

Hi Iftikhar,

 

 I was tempted to just dismiss this initially as the responses seem to have been all cut and pasted from other posts. Indeed its ironic that the response to David McCullough request for less cutting and pasting elicited some more cutting and pasting.

 

However, to look at a couple of points...there was a couple of things that looked worth questioning, (or maybe not as was suggested there doesn't seem much chance of any listening happening.) Your intitial point about forced marraiges and honour killings begins by saying that it is not a muslim practice, and then make the point that "the tragedy of forced marraige and honour killing could have been avoided if the poor girls were educated in a single sex state funded Muslims chools by female Muslim teachers". Can you clarify? Do you mean that Muslim girls are subject to this tragedy cause of because they aren't getting what you consider to be a good education? And that the fault lies with the eduation system...girls are being forced into marraige or killed because they are poorly educated? No personal responsibility...all the fault of the system?

 

In terms of being torn between 2 cultures...I can empthise with that, but perhaps culture and contact with western culture particularly happens outside of school also? Examples being with neighbours, friends, by reading newspapers, watching TV, listening to radio, looking at the internet?

Surely to avoid confusement young people and old, need to have an understanding of both cultures not just a knowledge of the language, but a solid understaning of the world in which they live, so that they can readily identify those elements they dislike and will know to avoid, and of course enjoy and find useful and enlightening, and will seek to interact with.  To state that a single faith school, and minimal contact with western youngsters will strengthen  community cohesion seems optimistic at best. Surely the best that can happen is that its neutral and neither strenghtens or weakens, as its opted out of the part that adds the cohesiveness? Maybe you could elaborate?

 

There are other parts of your post that could bear dissecting. Fore example your post seems to suggest that all the negative practices or experiences such as racism, homsexuality or anti-social behaviour are not to be found in the Muslim community, but I get the impression that's not a discussion you could ever see another side to.

 

Apologies if I've misunderstood, but I'm to be corrected. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Iftikhar,

 

Again, you've pasted in 3 paragraphs, it makes it hard to see what your new points are.

 

 With regard to your first paragraph, I suspect that your idea of a positive relationship between school and home is different to mine. You say that children will suffer socially if they are not raised by both parents and schools in an entirely mono-cultural environment. Is this correct? Doesn't it contradict your willingness for  children to follow the national curriculum?

 

 Here are some quotes from the 'values and purposes of the national curriculum' at key stage 1&2, which you can find here.

 

http://curriculum.qca.org.uk/key-stages-1-and-2/Values-aims-and-purposes/index.aspx

 

Do you agree with them? How do they fit into your statements?

 

'Education should reflect the enduring values that contribute to these ends. These include valuing ourselves, our families and other relationships, the wider groups to which we belong, the diversity in our society and the environment in which we live. Education should also reaffirm our commitment to the virtues of truth, justice, honesty, trust and a sense of duty.'

 

'In particular, we need to be prepared to engage as individuals, parents, workers and citizens with economic, social and cultural change, including the continued globalisation of the economy and society'

 

 

Iftikhar Ahmad:

Salaam

 

Muslim children suffer from identity crises because their parents teach them Islam and their schools teach them something else. There must be a positive co-relation between school and home, otherwise, children will suffer academically, spiritually , socially and emotionally. They are also unable to develop self-confidence and self-esteem.

 

 

Hi Iftikhar,

I don't think you've managed to really answer any questions I'm afraid. I'd suggest identity crisis, seems a little melodramatic.  Do the children mentioned really suffer identity crises or is other people worried that they will lose their cultural heritage?

Also your posts seem to only deal in absolutes. Its your way or the highway...no middle road. You're right, all other opinions therefore are wrong. For example monolingual=notorious

 Sorry if that seems a bit unfair, it based mostly on what is written in the post, but also a little bit on what seems to be a reluctance to elaborate beyond some key messages.

 

 

Your post is an absolute insult to British people and this country. I can't believe that you cannot see that if I were to make such generalisations to the muslim culture you would also be highly offended. 

Salaam

I am concerned with the education of Muslim children. Majority of them have been leaving schools with low grades. They have been victim of racism. They find themselves cut off from their cultural roots and are unable to enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. State schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers are not role models for them.  

 

I totally agree the, the guy should get off his soap box....thats you Iflikhar